University student Tased downtown
The Ol’ Dirty has a story in today about two University students being Tased and arrested for disorderly conduct on Friday.
The police report says that Ian George Van Ornum was standing in the middle of the street on Willamette and Broadway protesting the use of pesticides on highways, and was approached by police because he was disrupting the traffic.
Van Ornum then resisted arrest and was Tased twice. University student Anthony Farley tried to prevent the arrest and was Tased and subdued.
The circumstances for the Tasing aren’t made very clear in the report, and the use of a Taser does not seem necessary. Unfortunately, there is no objective information on the incident, since the accounts given by spectators present were friends of Van Ornum. If anything, though, this is a testament to the effectiveness of Tasers in assisting police officers in arrests.
The Survival Center is organizing a rally in support of the two students that were arrested, most definitely jumping on the anti-Taser issue. This is happening on Thursday at 12 in the EMU Amphitheater. A Eugene community member Planet Glassberg (no joke) weighed in on the issue with an opinion letter in the ODE:
Police already have numerous weapons such as chemical weapons, asps, batons, guns, rubber bullets, voice control and physical restraints. Aren’t there MANY better uses for our limited tax dollars than another violent weapon to be used against citizens? Let’s support better training and oversight for police, rather than the electrocution of our citizens.
So maybe Planet would have been happier if Van Ornum was beaten instead? I suppose having a broken nose or arm is better than being shocked without bodily injury, as long as it supports a bandwagon cause. Snarky comments aside, I will say that the deployment of Tasers by police is a hard issue to support fully as a freedom-loving citizen.
Cj.
I was thinking of the complacent ones on this thread. The folks who don’t yet get that “democracy is not an idea or a place to hang your hat ~ it’s something you DO /You participate. Otherwise democracy crumbles.”
can I use quote marks if I’m paraphrasing? ~Abbie Hoffman
I’m waiting for the cell phone video of the incident to find its way to YouTube.
Also wondering how long the TV news was there. They have a video of the people being put into police cars, but that’s it. I’m inclined to believe that if they had footage of the incident they’d do their job and use it, no matter which side it backed up.
Woah there. I don’t actually like tasers. I think the fact that they’re supposedly “non-lethal” gives cops way too much of an itchy trigger finger. The potential for abuse is huge (and has been shown over and over). Cops end up using them preemptively for compliance, rather than waiting for actual resistance.
But physically resisting arrest? That’s a tasin’. And if you gave me the choice, I’d take a tasing over pepper spray (my heart’s in great shape, thank you very much).
you shits, you weasels. (SOME of you.) Tasers have killed a couple hundred people in the last year alone, in the US.
Sounds like you’re off of sittin’ back in your happy little niches~ surmising that [all] police are using these weapons ‘judiciously’ / according to “protocol”. ?? Wake up. Nearly 200 folks have been killed in the last year alone, via these pilot ‘prrograms’. Killed. That’s KILLED.
YOU have a chance to affect the _precipice ! You can have a voice in defining “the protocols”. especially those of you who were eye witnesses.
jfg, use it or lose it.. (quick glance at the watch.)
Don’t you guys read? Little girls have been tased by police, old ladies, just over the weekend an 82 old man got it ~ He had a knife, but he was in a hospital bed and there were 3 cops present. times they are a changin’. Can’tcha see?
“whomever trains the police” ?? You should know this.
I’m surprised it took so may posts for Godwin’s law to be realized.
Chris, is this also hyperbolic to you?
Well, if the laundry list of alleged events that people keep citing actually happened, then the officers are likely in trouble.
And it’s hyperbolic to bring your argument about prejudice into this conversation. It’s a good thread for discussion, but it’s not relevant in this case. We’ve noted the ambiguity of things like disorderly conduct and resisting arrest already.
Personally, while I agree that the police must be responsible, I also think there is some civic responsibility for everyone in society. Civil disobedience for the sake of disobedience is stupid. Civil disobedience to get yourself arrested for protesting stupidly, is also dumb. There are good reasons for it, but the law isn’t prejudiced against Ian and his crew in this case and it is yet to be seen as to what actually went down.
A lot of people are saying “I was there” and there are new elements to the story each time…like the officer apparently being in civilian clothes, in a civilian vehicle and not saying that he was a police officer.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
True that Authority and Responsibility are complements.
A force trusted with safeguarding community and entrusted with authority, must be responsible. That force is duty-bound to uphold the laws, but what is the laws are unjust? If for instance the laws ordered prejudice against a group, should that group not resist? The case here is not the law, but the nature of the arrest. Why did the officer (in unmarked vehicle), not identify himself as an officer and expect compliance? I was there and the scene was intense.
Face to face, eh? Sounds risky… better bring my taser, just in case.
Seems like Josh took a stupid joke personally, went hyperbolic and sarcastic on it and always wants to settle things face to face with people. : )
Why is it that I usually find myself agreeing with the only openly McCarthyist person I know?
Also, Josh Schlossberg is a rhetorical and political genius. FEAR THE BIKE.
CJ: Actually, I laugh at them too. Because they’re frickin’ Naruto fans. They’re rabid as hell. So let’s laugh together when Narutards around the world get tased for being idiots!
Chris: They’re a part of my portfolio.
Ani, Te-zu wo shiranaide!
“Don’t tase me bro!”
Sakaki, first they come for the hippies, and you laugh because you hate hippies.
But when cops taser some belligerent Naruto fan at ComiCon, who will be left to laugh? That’s right, me.
Speaking of profit to be made…
To continue this, apparently a friend’s roommate was at the incident…I’m trying to secure an interview with him to hear the firsthand experience that isn’t in the format of a police testimonial.
Tempted, but I usually don’t waste my time when there’s profit to be made.
Work or hippies? Work or hippies? That’s a hard choice. I think I’ll take something hippies don’t have. Work.
Do you want some Schlossberg in your face Sakaki? : )
To Sakaki:
Those involved with Friday’s events and supporters will be gathering on campus at EMU Thursday noon, if you’d like to share those particular sentiments to Ian’s face.
I would also be more than happy to hear your opinion in person. Ask for me by name, I’ll be around to listen to your concerns face to face.
So, I went and took a look at the website of the group this Ian guy is a part of. And my reaction was, simply, “Good job, EPD. Please continue the good work.”
Then again, I am an evil SOB…so I’d probably say that anyways.
Sustainable solar taser drones are the only way to secure campus and stop the global warming cult and its followers…….. dump all student surplus funds into this immediately. Kevin Costner should be brought back for a don’t tase me bro battle of the bands. Speaking of weapons, did anyone else see the sadistic duck mascot acting really weird with a huge ceremonial sword on the steps of Johnson Hall last Friday for some initiation ritual?
Tim: Thank you for the hyperbole. : )
I’d argue that it isn’t, as we already have the crimes Assault and Assaulting a Police Officer. I’m not even sure the second is needed, because at least in my mind a cop is just another citizen with a job role and a badge so it shouldn’t be a special crime to assault one, it’s just regular assault. In any case, a crime so broadly construed as “resisting arrest” that’s basically up to the discretion of the officer involved coupled with the rank-closing tendency of police forces and the tendency of folks to legitimize police behavior regardless only gives the state a tool for charge stacking. And who says libertarians all agree?
Chris: Regarding protocol – you know, the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.
If Carly is right…then I imagine this isn’t the last we’ll hear, and this incident could play into whether or not EPD keeps tasers.
For what it’s worth, it wouldn’t be the first time an EPD officer or two got in trouble for crossing the line.
Agreed on the carte blanche.
I’m arguing that Resisting Arrest, while arbitrary, is necessary.
But it definitely does not give them a free license to beat whomever they wish that twitches a little while being detained.
There are over 50 witnesses that saw what really happened. The police auditor received at least 18 testimonials that completely contradict the police’s press release.
The police seem to be trying to cover up their criminal acts by charging innocent victims with invented charges.
As a bit of background, the bearded guy in the link Chris put up is David Owen, who was part of a big story in the Eugene Weekly a couple years ago about the pesticide controversy:
As with many in the Eugene activist community, he’s got a bit of a conspiratorial bent:
Owen said that funny things happen to folks who speak up against the timber industry: Water pipes get smashed, houses get torched, choppers spray homes directly, tax appraisers come knocking. The fear of retaliation is as real as the conviction that the sprayings make people sick. “Whether it’s true or not, people believe it,” Owen said.
The next time I talk to my brother I’ll have to ask him about tasers. He’s a cop up in Gresham and, while I’m sure there are differences from department to department on protocol, it’d be interesting to learn just what officers are told about when it is appropriate to escalate to using them.
Local News Coverage
I imagine this is protocol. It may be over-the-top, but if it is indeed protocol then it is not the officers at fault but the people who write the policy and train police officers on how to act according to it.
If it’s not protocol, I imagine there might be a case.
We’ll see.
I was an eye-witness and here’s the only thing of relevance:
An officer (there were 4 all around him) tazered Van Ornum, which dropped him to the ground, a cop put a knee on his back while he was down, grabbed his hair and banged his head on the pavement, THEN continued to taser him another two times.
And the police were NOT concerned about the water bottle, as they left it where it fell for 15 minutes, then I picked it up in full view of them and they did nothing, and then I walked around for two hours with it and they didn’t take it as “evidence.”
The “sprayer” issue is just copspin. The real issue is what they did AFTER the bottle was no longer involved, namely: TAZERED A 140 LB. KID WHILE HE WAS ALREADY DOWN ON THE GROUND WITH HIS HANDS BEHIND HIS BACK.
It’s true that the police are the accepted authority in society; however, that doesn’t give them carte blanche. That is more along the lines of what Tim is saying, I think. When you have ‘crimes’ like resisting arrest that are arbitrary or ambiguous enough that a cop can arrest you even if you’re not really impeding anything or resisting in the truest sense of the word…there’s something wrong.
So, we give police authority but with it comes the responsibility to act with the utmost respect toward what we as society bestow upon them. That is why people argue for more checks on police. The authority is often taken for granted and pushed to the edge or beyond…
It’s like having an all-volunteer military force. We give them the authority to be our military muscle and to protect US interests (etc, etc). However, there is an inherent responsibility to how this military is to be used. Often, that responsibility is ignored or subverted with thinking like “hey, they volunteered!”. Hence, there need to be checks from time to time with how the military is used as well.
Bottom line is that if you are bestowed with authority it comes with respect for the process by which you are legitimized…not a free-for-all, do-what-you-please session throughout your jurisdiction. This is true for police, government officials at all levels, and anywhere else where the power(s) with which you act is not your own but is in fact a product of what society has agreed can be given to you for your time in your position.
The reason why Resisting Arrest has to be a crime in a civilization is because we as a people have determined that having police officers is a necessity.
By making that decision, we inherently submit to their authority and give their authority legitimacy.
If Resisting Arrest was not a crime, we would be able to undermine the authority of police. Having such a crime makes it less appealing for people out of order to resist even further.
Take DPS for example…they cannot charge anyone for resisting arrest. They can attempt to detain someone, but if the person resists and even punches the DPS officer, nothing can be done about it. Ever since I’ve learned this, I have far less respect for DPS’ authority and barely even view them as a legitimate safety force.
Regardless of your views particularly on DPS, it goes to show how the lack of an arbitrary law such as Resisting Arrest can undermine a police force’s authority.
I don’t think it’s a matter of escalating but rather controlling. If police officer went fisticuffs with fisticuffs, then we would have another shamble-riffic MMA bout in the street. The reason for ‘one-upping’ and going to the next level of force is to simple get the incident under control. I totally agree with being in shape to do the job, but there are instances when the dude is bigger and stronger than any cop. It isn’t tag-team police work. They go in to get the situation under control, and move on.
While some protestors may welcome the attention brought on by a confrontation with the officers–whether for their cause or just general police brutality popularity, it’s totally in the best interest for the protestor to be knowledgable about what they can and cannot do in order to get their message out as effectively as possible.
Tim: granted, protesters shouldn’t *HAVE* to notify authorities if they plan to protest, given the freedoms that our country stands for. The reason that protesters DO consult the authorities is that knowledge of a protest and what to expect from the protesters mitigates the potential for aggression, from either side of the line (protester or police).
I don’t think that the police should just have to tolerate all physical acts short of real violence; in an idyllic world, maybe, but this is only given with the benefit of hindsight. I think this guy deserved exactly what he got when he started resisting authorities and acting criminal (yes, resisting arrest is a crime).
You can disagree with me all you want, but I believe you don’t spit in the wind, you don’t tug on superman’s cape, and you don’t fuck around with police officers.
I thought of another example to illustrate what I’m talking about…although it didn’t work out for the party involved.
Al-Jazeera News gave the US military the GPS coordinates of its offices that would be in or near the areas targeted by US weaponry. The point was to avoid being targeted. In the end, the US accidentally destroyed the buildings that Al-Jazeera wanted to protect and killed people in the process…but the fact that they gave the US the coordinates begs the question (without resorting to lunacy) as to how it was hit by precision-guided weaponry.
: )
Tim: I think you’re missing my point. I’m not advocating it, I’m just saying that it could put more power in the hands of the protesters if/when cops mess with them. You may think it’s unreasonable, but it is a strategy to use.
In response to JT:
This particular incident doesn’t have anything to do with our freedoms being stripped away. Van Ornum was going to be arrested whether it was via Taser or via Baton/Pepper Spray/Armlock.
Had Farley and the other man tried to interfere as they did (regardless of deployment of Taser) they would have been arrested as well.
Add to that UAVs and other automated devices used by the Military and we have a dream Terminator scenario here.
Add Segues and Roombas linked up to SkyNet and we’re done for.
Let’s pass a law requiring all future student marches begin at Kesey Square! The point above about lack of training is a good one. The taser is about incremental automation of a job currently held by humans. The taser is a slippery slope to police work entirely by robot/drone(like new “smart” border tech). The taser is the beginning of what will be the robot arms of the law . Sounds weird but you have seen the cop segway units right ? Robots capabilities are on the rise and their costs and sizes are down. Imagine Housing director Eyster investing in small robot vacuums for the dorms with the ability to autonomously tase misbehaving students. The possibilities are so sustainable. Give a cop on a segway a couple of tasers and pretty soon the way we interface police is a man vs police robot experience. Since humans and robots have a controversial relationship already(thanks Hollyweird) this could exacerbate existing communication problems. Where are the robot hate groups when you need them?
Reprehensible or not, it plays into cops hands if that’s what is going on. Sooner people realize that, the sooner they’ll stop getting arrested and tazed for stupid shit.
The point isn’t how hard a handcuffed guy can hit you, although your argument here is up to debate, the point is that the person is wriggling around trying to escape and basically giving cops carte blanche to subdue him or her.
As for your last sentence, this is pretty ridiculous. You’re saying that if a cop signed up for it, then you should take it like a man and subdue the person with physical means other than tasing? Yeah, that will look great on a video even if it was justified. Then we’re in here debating a ‘police beating’ and not a tasing.
Drawing the line at what is violence and what is not, is just ambiguous and dumb. If it is a physical altercation or resisting of arrest that goes nutty on behalf of the handcuffed individual…you’ll get what you’re asking for. This is old news.
Anyway, I’m not saying cops should have carte blanche or that they should be baiting people or whatever. I’m saying that protesting citizens need to be smarter than these guys were…apparently. If they say you’re blocking traffic and that’s disorderly conduct, stop blocking traffic. Stop giving them roundabout legal reasons to mess with you. Stop acting the fool. Stop dressing up in hazmat suits, spraying people and asking police (of all people) if “they want poison” in their face.
Hell, why not consult the law and find out what is within your rights? How about notifying police beforehand to say, “I’m going to be here protesting, I don’t want any problems, I’ll be in a hazmat suit spraying water on the ground”? Plenty of protests happen with police oversight and the police do not get egged on, nor do they go batshit and start tazing everyone in sight.
This is irrelevant. If anything, experience with dangerous or potentially dangerous situations should make one BETTER at responding to them: more calm, used to the pressures, able to react in an appropriate manner. “But, but, they have a dangerous job!” is as common a defense of police behavior as it is a pathetic one. Cops are supposed to be professionals at dealing with situations like this one, and when they act in an unprofessional manner or with greater force than warranted, there should be consequences.
Resisting is fine with me, but only if it is through non-violent action. Once the people resisting become violent, it is justification enough for the police to act. I imagine there are those people who try to encourage a police reaction, but even if you are not trying to do that…it’s stupid to egg on cops when they’re escorting you to and fro…regardless of whether or not their actions are called for. I mean, IF cops are baiting someone and the guy bites and goes off on them, they’re in the clear. People like this hazmat guy should not bite. Beyond that though, the spraying of liquids sounds stupid. It was likely benign and all, but still, I don’t want someone in a hazmat suit spraying me with anything…even if it is in political jest.
I’d also argue that the strategy in place by many groups who protest make it too easy for them to be marginalized. It’s a bad analogy, and I’m not grouping them together at all here, but even true assholes like David Duke realize that it’s harder to be shouted down and ridiculed when you look the part of a decent citizen and behave in a manner that is respectable yet defiant (think Senators and Congresspeople here, hehehe). Doing that (looking civil) and then getting abused by cops would be far more effective. Think of what people driving by would think if a respectable looking guy in a suit is protesting defiantly yet non-violently and then gets tased or messed with by the cops. I know I’d probably look twice.
So yeah, I think that the sight of a lot of protesters these days alone will turn off a lot of the population and they’ll just tune out whatever is being said. This isn’t a stab at the protesters really, but it is a problem that they have when it comes down to getting a message across. Of course, not all protesters fit the bill I’m describing, and I don’t even know if what I’m saying plays into this scenario…although the hazmat suit leads me to believe that it does.
Agreed, Chris … I doubt EPD will receive any serious form of punishment, except maybe a lawsuit from Van Ornum (which I expect will be dismissed or dropped as time progresses).
When you read the police report (or, rather, the Emerald’s reporting on the police report), it sounds like this guy had it coming to him: walking around in a hazmat suit, spraying people with liquid from a bottle while inquiring “Do you know you’ve been poisoned?” This act alone may not have justified a tasing, but it was only once he began resisting arrest (reportedly, he escaped from police, while still in handcuffs, and was swinging them at officers) do I think that tasing is justified. Same for the other student, Farley, who approached and swung at officers as well. I think its very easy for your average citizen to look at a situation like this (with the benefit of hindsight) and to say that police should have responded better, while forgetting that police officers routinely put themselves in situations that have an unknown potential for danger or harm. Whose then to say that, in the moment of such a situation, a use of force is unwarranted?
Ian was dressed up as an exterminator and spraying “unknown liquid” on the street. According to the police report
So…what happened then?
I doubt EPD will be in much trouble over this, but it’s an interesting first for Eugene…I think.
I was there, and I had no idea who Ian was before that day. The police report claims that he was disrupting traffic but that was not true. It sickens me to see how the police and the media can take something so ridiculously peaceful and instigate a ruckus.
The police absolutely stepped out of line! The arrest and tasering were unwarranted, and a serious law suit and political upheaval is upon the EPD starting with the auditors office. Our civil rights were stripped away from this authoritative and abusive power trip that police departments across the country are grappled with. People in Eugene will not tolerate such powers.