Check it out. The new issue is out, and it’s filled with wonderful journalistic droppings.
This entry was posted on Tuesday, February 15th, 2005 at 21:52 by Tyler and is filed under Uncategorized.
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One of my pictures has mason sitting extreemly close with another dude…hmm…
send me an email with the address for the pics.
cool, [email protected]?
Wait…wait…somebody calling him/her self a “libertarian” wants to see the OC defunded for content? What kind of crazy mixed up world is this?
I’d love the pics, Andy, and I’ll give you credit for taking them.
I ran into Melissa and chatted for a few. I saw Tyler but i was trying to persuade a young (L?)libertarian not to hate the commentator. Peter spoke, and mason said anyone who wants to “fuck with the gays will have to come fuck with him too.” toby was there but the whole deal was pathetic. People ranting about how people throw trash at them and one guy said he was called faggot every day. I know for sure the same people supposedly perpetrating the hostile climate on campus wouldn’t have called him that.
What a warped view of the world; an eternal victim.
If anyone wants 600k pics, email me.
Just a point of info: It’s Southworth v. Board of Regents
And, just for note, this is from the judge in the Philadelphia 5 trial:
“We are one of the very few countries that protects unpopular speech,” [Judge Pamela] Dembe said after viewing a videotape of the arrests. “And that means that Nazis can March in Skokie, Ill. … That means that the Ku Klux Klan can march where they wish to. We cannot stifle speech because we don’t want to hear it, or we don’t want to hear it now.”
Trust me, it ain’t worth going down there. There’s maybe about 20 people sitting on the steps of the admin building, and a few gawkers.
When I got down there, Mason was speaking some two-faced junk. The whole thing there was…well, let’s just say that they need to understand that their crusade to suppress free speech is not going to succeed.
Simply, the law is against them, and they can whine and complain as much as they wish, But Hustler v. Falwell, GLBT v. Golt (sp?), and US v. Southworth all go against them.
Andy: please do take pictures. I myself will be in 50 minutes of Anth 270 lab hell come high noon.
Tim: I asked him stop. He didn’t.
Yay! I’ll try and bring the conservative chicas. I think this event warrents a digital camera and recording device..
Fun with real audio!
Clint: Look, man, I took issue with one word and told you why, I don’t think tossing on a qualifier makes it any more acceptable. Yes, you didn’t wish Toby harm, but again, this is a privately maintained space and we’ll no more allow that particular f-bomb (others, go right ahead) than we would the n-bomb in a similar context. That’s the point I was trying to get across.
Mel: I don’t think that quite warrants a banning. Deb, well, Deb’s insane. Clint is just sort of annoying sometimes on this one issue.
–Clint
We’ll get back to the funny stuff when we have a big issue to fill. Keep reading, and keep commenting if you can keep it civil.
I don’t think that we’re taking things too seriously; it’s just that we don’t need an outside “supporter” adding legitimacy to claims that are clearly asinine (calling Toby a psuedo fag certainly does that).
Andy —
I’ll probably show up to the demonstration.
Clint —
When did we call your shit “hate speech”? Don’t be an asshole, dude. All we said was that you shouldn’t use the word fag on our blog. That’s all.
Andy, they’ve done went and banned me. And I would most certainly show up to the protest tomorrow at Johnson Hall if there weren’t a little 1000 mile journey between us. I was there yelling obscenities at the WRC (?) protesters – and that went on everyday I passed them for the two (?) weeks they frolicked on the lawn. Does anyone else think if the weather could have just been a tad more Oregonianish during that time period that Fhronz would have never signed up? I really enjoyed all the backlash when he backed out.. oh wait.. what backlash.
Well hello there Mel..
Just kidding. Anyway, as much fun as the ‘block the IP’ game would be, I’m not going to go there. This isn’t my attempt to get the last word in, so much as it is my last words.
Good luck to most of you, Mel/Tyler/Tim/Andy/Casey.. Jan, you’re still a bitch with comprehension skills that rival that of a sea urchin. Otherwise I’ve enjoyed reading the discourse some of you have put forth. Its unfortunate that my words were classified as “hate speech” when that most certainly wasn’t the intent, I’d also suggest that some of you take yourself a little less seriously and get back to the satire that made the magazine great to read some years ago.
Much like Toby couldn’t see the larger picture while focusing in on a few choice words, most of you are guilty of the same.
Good luck with your future endeavors though.
Hey clint, show up to the protest tomorrow at johnson hall from 12-2. Even though the commentator might not entertain your support, other conservatives and libertairians would. Any of the OC crew going to make an appearance? That’ll really add gas to the fire! he he.
Was it the good Churchill that said the most exhilerating event in his life was being shot at and not getting hit? Danger is the spice of life :)~
Bye, Clint.
Yea Jan, thats totally what I want to talk about. Can you read or are you just a blind bitch? Good work though, keep fighting the good fight.
Allowing somebody to respond in print to a contoversy without being mocked isn’t exactly a new thing in journalism. The OC let the guy speak his piece freely to get another perspective on the debate, and that was that. Also, now that Toby has seemingly made some peace with the OC, the PFC’s whole rationale for defunding is slowly getting shoved straight up Quiroz’s ass. So everybody wins: Toby gets to tell his side (stupid as I or any other reader think it may be) and the PFC loses any argument it had left. If they can ever reach quorum again, that is.
Clint, I think you’re in the wrong debate. This has always been about made-up words. If you want to talk about hating gay people, well there’s a little place called the Oregon Citizens Alliance. You might fit right in.
Yea Tyler, mission accomplished.. all I wanted was to make sure I was coming off as a junior high student. Good of you to take nine letters from .. oh.. at first guess.. three-hundred.. and make your determination, I wouldn’t call that bigoted in anyway. Pseudo-fag? I guess we’re all going to make our own conclusions, but your old doom friend probably doesn’t fit the bill – as amusing as that story sounds.
Casey you didn’t ask a question.. go read your message again. So don’t get all high and f’n mighty on me, claiming I’m ducking questions when there were none proposed, and if I’m ever at Linn-Benton CC, please shoot me as I doubt there’s anything positive I would be able to contribute there, or anywhere for that matter.
I’m not sure if you’re trying to be witty, or if you’re just as paranoid as you previously stated, but to answer your question, all of my posts thus far have been thesaurus free, though I do try an spell-check whenever possible. All I was saying is that you are under the impression that the Univ. of Oregon is the only place that you can’t go around calling people “pseudo-fag” without repercussion. I notice that you actually didn’t answer the question; instead preferring to state that “there wouldn’t be a person that would apply at my job under the pretense that I would be forced to refer to him using ambiguous pronouns.” Either way, I’m quite bored with this discussion. If youre ever at Linn-Benton Community College, feel free to come by and call me a fag, I won’t tell anybody.
What the hell is a “psuedo-fag” anyway?
I lived next to a guy in the dorms who claimed to be gay. He didn’t have any guy friends, and he spent the majority of his time entertaining very attractive girls in his room. During long nights of drinking Big Bear and hearing the high-pitched squeals emanating from his room, my roommate and I wondered if the whole gay thing was just his way of meeting woman. Is this what you’re saying about Toby? That he’s orchastrating an elaborate ruse.
Listen, Clint, I told Toby that I’d give him a page in the AP, which I did. As Dan stated earlier, it has never been OC policy to rebutt an AP column. Why the fuck would I make an exception to that now? Just to fuck with the guy? I made a statement, in public, that I would do something, and I kept my word. I don’t feel weak for doing that.
As for using the word “fag” … yeah, please don’t. You sound like you’re thirteen.
FIRST OF ALL – “PSUEDO-FAG” If you’re going to quote something at least have the decency to quote it correctly. Secondly, there are acceptable venues to discuss this matter. Would I ever use that word at work? I don’t see why I would have to – there wouldn’t be a person that would apply at my job under the pretense that I would be forced to refer to him using ambiguous pronouns. Anyway Casey, there.. you’ve been acknowledged.. I’m just curious though, did you just use a thesaurus to change some of your words from your previous post or did you actually re-hash out the same thought process and completely start from scratch?
In no way, shape, or form have I ever wished Toby harm in anyway. I would like to make that point VEHEMENTLY clear, and would also appreciate if Tim would recognize that point as well. Calling someone a “pseudo-fag” and wishing them harm ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS. (“This sounds errily familiar.”) If one is forced to intrepret my words so that they feel my words have “done them harm” then you have created a gray area of which only the Supreme Court will be likely to set straight – or until my words “are able to jump off the (computer screen) and strike someone in the face.” I do not wish Toby harm, I think my feelings are best summed up in words that Tim has more eloquently stated.. “Toby is entitled to think whatever he wants. I am equally entitled to think much of what Toby (thinks) is patently stupid.” In fact, if I ever met Toby I would be likely to treat him as I treat anyone else – buy him a beer and start bs’ing, unless/until he began making an ass of himself.
Am I the only one that feels outright insulted by Toby’s p.o.s. masquerading as an “acceptable excuse” for why he started the snowball to shut down the commentator. (Thats another thing I don’t understand, its being termed as “defund” everywhere I look when thats not what it is – technically, you may use that word, but literally is a whole different story – shut down. closed. don’t come back to work tomorrow.) The only thing I can imagine is Toby standing in front of a giant pile of dog feces with a shovel, and after stating his article’s name, he digs in nice and deep into that pile and proceeds to spoonfeed us his first paragraph, all while looking us right in the eyes and smiling. He then continues through his piece of work and goes on to make himself out to be a further victim of the process that was to shut down the OC.. that he was left with only one choice.. to shut down the commentator.. do you honestly think he – even for a moment – reflected on what he was doing? Do you think that even for a microsecond, as Toby was lying in bed, getting ready for a peaceful 8 hours of sleep he stopped and said.. “maybe I’m taking myself too seriously.. maybe I’m overly sensitive?” Do you think for a second he wasn’t pleased with the “only option available”?
Maybe I’m paranoid, or maybe I go too far into assuming I know what other people are thinking.. at either case.. I apologize to those I have offended with my words. If anyone has the ability to go back and edit my work, feel free to replace the term in question with “jerk.” I still think the point is lost on many of you though. Scream for PC while there are a whole slew of problems worse than a hyphenated word brought forth.
With that said, and as I’ve stated before this is a site controlled and moderated by the OC. I will respect your wishes and toe the PC line. Tim/Mel/Dan I appreciate your understanding and views on the matter and in the future I will conduct myself in a more professional manner.
In regards to “Hate Speech” in the “real world,” try calling someone at your occupation a “fag,” even in jest, and see what happens. You might get shrugged off as a moron, or you might get canned. It is everywhere, not just in Any CollegeTown U.S.A.
I concur with Danimal and Tim, and I stand by my previous request. Drink!
I also second, more or less, what Tim just said.
What we have here is a bit of a chilling impact on speech. It’s sad to witness, Clint, but there it is.
But there is more at play here than that. Toby Hill-Meyer has accepted our offer of the Another Perspective column. And it’s generally OC policy to print, without edit or comment, whatever the AP columnist feels like writing. As long as I’ve been here (since 1997), I’ve never seen an OC rebuttal to an AP column. There’s no compelling reason to do one now. Everybody knows how we feel, anyway.
*sigh* There’s a difference between thinking that Toby’s worldview is irrational at best and calling him a “fag”. It’s that last part that’s over the line, children. It’s nigh-on the same as dropping the infamous N-word and really shouldn’t be done because it’s strictly deragotory in the “human value” category.
Toby is entitled to think whatever he wants. I am equally entitled to think much of what Toby thinks is patently stupid, as are you, but tossing around “fag” is pretty much doing what he thinks the OC did at the start of this whole stupid escapade.
You’re well within your legal rights to do so, but do it on your own time and with your own web-related resources. Making fun of Toby’s insistence that he be mentioned with imaginary words, his insistence that a pronoun invented for the sake of biological ease is somehow a tool of oppression, or his terrible haircut is a lot different than spitting “fag” at him and wishing him harm.
The fact that Toby and the LGBTQA don’t have enough of a sense of humor to grasp the difference has caused major headache for the OC in much of recent history, and your tossing that crap about on a space that we pay for and maintain only helps blur the line for them.
This is why Olly took such issue with my using “it” as a pronoun for Toby, as he feels “it” is ipso facto dehumanizing. I disagree, and have always preferred to think of God as “it” (because what would the all-powerful creator of the universe really need a gender/sex for?), but for the sake of ease I’m much willing to give it up. It’s no easier to remember to swap in “it” than it would be to remember “ze” or “hir”, and I am at root a very lazy person.
There is a difference between not-PC and outright bigoted is what I’m trying to get at. While the OC institutionally supports the former, true bigotry (not the inconsequential garbage that most of the left gets excited about these days, but real actual bigotry like anti-Semitism, aparthide, and anti-Arab backlash) isn’t so far afield from the sort of totalitarianism that all civil libertarians oppose.
In short: Toby should be allowed to live as he pleases and think what he pleases regardless of what I think about it, but I reserve the right to make fun of him for his opinions and to debate those opinions with speech of my own. However, I think calling somebody “fag” is about like dropping the n-bomb, and it’s something I neither condone nor support. Especially on a forum that I pay for and maintain.
Yes, yes, and yes. Uncalled for? Maybe. Tasteless, certainly.
PC? Enjoy guys. You’re hand is forced into being PC when you’re at the university, “Hate Speech.. etc.” Do you know outside of the University, I have never once read those two words together? Once you get into the real world, you’ll notice a considerable difference. Maybe not to the assine levels I’m taking it to.. but there’s a difference nonetheless.
Its good of you to focus on those negative aspects of my message though.. keep your side of the line in check while turning the other cheek towards those that bash *you.* Its amazing how the liberal campus really has some of you living in such a state of fear that you read those words I posted, and start screaming for “PC..PC..PC!!” although maybe its just that no one has a sense of humor anymore when it comes to this garbage.
Anyway, I’ll toe the PC line out of respect for the OC.
The subtlety might be lost on you, but there is a difference between being PC and referring to someone as a “pseudo-fag.” I guess this is another example of “the Liberals” ruining your life. Besides, where do you think those trying to take down the OC are going to look for fodder?
clint, this is PC land now.
Clint;
Don’t use derogatory language towards Toby. That is really uncalled for, and I am asking you to stop posting those kinds of statements on this blog.
That still doesn’t mean you couldn’t have openly mocked him on the next page, or even better.. the same page. If ever there was a time for satire.. maybe it was just too easy a target for the good ‘ol O.C.
Or you guys are developing morals.. ::shudder:: Keeping your word? Since when was that important? That jerkoff on the PFC didn’t keep his word to step down. I’m pretty sure somewhere in the wonderful process to appoint that “leader,” he also gave his word to ‘do the right thing..’ so to speak. He didn’t seem to stick to that either.
And then in the Insurgent (BTW, the only news I get from the Insurgent is when you make fun of it.. call me close-minded, but I’m not reading it – when I read about how this bitch Toby felt unsafe after your joke about him, I thought about that crap the Insurgent was doing 2 years ago (?) posting the names/addresses/phone numbers of professors next to page detailing destructive behavior and how that WAS unsafe, but they weren’t defunded – was it even mentioned? BTW, good comeback posting the names/numbers/addresses of the staff over there as a rebuttal.. if anyone is still there from that staff.. anyway.. back to ‘in the Insurgent..’), you’ve got ideas being spread about bombing a major city and destroying millions of dollars worth of property… killing hundreds if not thousands of civilians… but cracking a joke about a pseudo-fag gets you whipped by the student government worse than a rabid mountain donkey.. something.. is.. not.. right.. here. Did I miss the freshman orientation class on how to lose all sense of rational thought? That would explain a lot to me.
We may have legitimate problems with Toby’s citing of sources, but we did say that we’d give Toby a page, so that’s what we did.
We have to keep our word…
As for the edit, Tim, I will fix that.
I concur, great issue.
You know it’s a good issue when I read it for the first time and laugh out loud. I still do that. Great job, Tyler.
Not terribly impressed. I mean.. it is better than anything I could put together, but was rather lacking in its normally charming sarcastic wit.. I imagine giving a one paragraph rebuttal or even a sentence to Toby Hill-Meyer would have been going too far?
I do like the.. “Hill-Meyer discusses *his* decision to go to the PFC.” Thats nice. Subtle too. It will probably notice, but too late.. its in print, can’t be changed.
I also like the quick statistics that Toby points out.. complete with legitimate sources such as, “someone told me..” and with concrete facts such as “over a 50% chance,” and “direct or indirect result of discrimination” I’d just like to say, if the idea of “indirectly” dying due to discrimination is via suicide.. HAHAHAHA. Toby even forces the readers sympathic half to ponder the idea.. “Imagine if you were told at least half your friends would be dead within the next decade..” Holy shit?!! Do you know how much I’d save on Birthday gifts and Christmas presents if this could go down?! And those bastards never even get me anything back..
Hey wait..
Good looking issue, gents.
Personally, I’d have titled Melissa’s article “The Devil’s in the Decals”. But that’s me.
Good issue.
Link fixed.
And, to nitpick about the edit, you should use “we” instead of “I” and put a period in between “media” and “that’s” in the next to last paragraph.
Link points to issue 4.