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Pacifica Forum for Dummies

Dear everyone who stopped caring,
Remember how much we’ve been reading about Pacifica Forum for the last month (partly my fault)? I have a pop quiz for you, just to see if you were paying attention.

A)     A Neo-Nazi Group
B)      Responsible for vandalizing LGBTQA
C)      A Free Speech Group
D)     Against feminism, homosexuality, and ethnic equality.
E)      A White Supremacist Group
F)      Responsible for the anti-Semitic note
G)     Loving, respectful, intelligent people
H)     All of the above

A)     If you answered (A), you get an F. They’re not Nazis, or so they claim, but they talk about Nazism sometimes. Some members could possibly be Fascist, though probably not… but Fascism doesn’t inherently come with racism, sexism and bigotry (as illustrated by Imperial Japan). So, if you’re the protester whose been holding up that “smash fascism” sign, you get an F-.
B)      If you answered (B), you get an F. Until someone’s arrested, nobody’s responsible for vandalizing LGBTQA. When someone is arrested, they (the person) will be responsible for vandalizing LGBTQA. Kind of self explanatory.
C)      If you answered (C), you get a D. Just high enough to not have to take the test ever again. Because, in truth, every group that ever talks about anything is a free speech group. Do they exist solely for the empowerment of the First Amendment? Doubtful, considering it doesn’t really need to be empowered. So if you answered (C), you kind of cheated. But at least you have deductive reasoning.
D)     If you answered (D), you get an F. Some people in Pacifica may hate lots of stuff, some may even speak about it, or be intolerant about it, but that doesn’t mean the group represents those ideals, it means some people in the group do. Kind of self explanatory. Again.
E)      If you answered (E), you get an F. Same answer as (D).
F)      If you answered (F), you get an F. Same answer as (B).
G)     If you answered (G), you don’t just get an F, you get a WTF.
H)     If you answered (H), you don’t even get a grade because you’ve been kicked out.

So, what is the answer? You’re going to laugh. I promise.

I’ve attended several Pacifica meetings now to observe. I’ve watched idiotic protesters wave signs, ring phones, cry about things that they don’t actually understand. I’ve watched idiotic Forum speakers talk about things that would be humorous to credit with validity, pathetic concepts that no thoughtful person would ever think to give assembly for. The answer, dear campus, is that Pacifica Forum is a conspiracy theory group. Yeah, maybe not all of them believe the conspiracies, maybe some of them (hopefully the ex-Professors) know more about subjective truths and just are open to housing extremist concepts. But the fact remains that these concepts are discussed. They talk about concepts that are so inherently dumb (like that MLK was a Commie, of Jews killed 66 million people in Russia—very common conspiracy theories) that it’s nothing short of funny. The group is not malicious. The group is not dangerous. The group is not trying to hurt anybody, intentionally. The group is not trying to be hateful, intentionally. It’s just that… they’re dumb. Dumb for believing conspiracy theory, or dumb for providing it a venue. Either way.

But for the love of Mary, stop protesting a bunch of conspiracy theorists. Stop giving them attention; stop validating the fact that their theories are even worth opposing. They’re not going to go away, they will continue to use their free speech and further outlandish ideas. Why can’t we all just ignore them and let them piddle away onto the backburner where they belong? Why can’t the protest just leave them alone and let them be stupid in isolation? WHY HAVE YOU EXPOSED THE REST OF US TO STUPIDITY THAT WE NEVER WANTED TO HEAR ABOUT?!

Right now the protest is conspiring about just as much bologna as the Forum by arguing with them. They have provided foul behavior and misinformation just the same. The protest has come no closer to kicking Pacifica off campus then they were on day one, so why does it continue? The actions of both of these groups are so utterly demoralizing to our faith in human-kind that it’s making us sane people lump both Pacifica members and the protest members together into a collective group that we just call “the dummies.”

And if all of “the dummies” don’t shut up about all of this pretty soon, I’m going to have to start a protest against them.

Tomorrow: Protest Pop Quiz!

  1. Java says:

    Uh, Evan, a few posts up you told ‘Raul’ and the rest us of that Antifa was “doing just what you’re [Pacifica Forum or Forum supporters] doing.” In the context of information provided in the WW editorial, the comparison has some serious-sized holes.

    Our “conversation” about protests in Portland (or here in Eugene) have become one and the same. Take time to check out :

  2. Ronna Bouche' says:

    Hey Java- “Will Sudsy be going”? … nah!

    Sudsy and all fun lovers will line up with “ET” (Evan) …
    to follow freedom & free speech & free brewskeys @ the local Pizza Joint.

    OH, just to discuss the intellectuals and academics after attending Friday’s Forum!

    Invite lots of fun-loving Anarchists. They love brew.

  3. ER says:

    Incredulous presents which is a very detailed, sourced refutation of DC

  4. Evan P. Thomas says:

    I’m not sure you know what we’re talking about. If you want to have the conversation about whether the protests in Portland (or here in Eugene) have gone too far, that’s an entirely different subject (one that I’m inclined to agree with you about).

    Right now we’re talking about the “correlation” between antifa’s and anti-freedom. Which I interpret as “against the first amendment.” Which is ridiculous because they utilize the first amendment all the time (even if they don’t perhaps understand the legality behind it).

    The only action that was taken that could be prosecuted against in that article was vandalism. Which has nothing to do with free speech.

  5. Java says:

    Evan, did you miss something here? The WW article recounts ACTION taken by antifa. Also, posting stickers that “threaten extreme violence,” if documented, would likely not be protected under the First Amendment.

  6. Europa says:

    Evan and Incredulous, ever tried the following?:

    If you would approach these sites with an attitude of honest, Truth-seeking inquiry, instead of being swayed by all your public school and university brainwashing, coupled with your enormous young egos, I think you’ll be able to rise above the intellectual b.s. you’ve carried around for 20 or so years, and actually learn some vital facts. Did you hear Valdas’ ultra-brilliant lecture last Friday? Comprehend any part of it if you were there? All the while ignorant, unread neo-Commies and “black tea” anarchists under liar M Williams hooted and turned their backs? I wonder.

    Anyway, is Pacifica really a so-called conspiracy theory group? Maybe. But how is that bad? CTs, like stereotypes, usually contain some truth, or much truth, depending. Why knock CThists? That is the behavior of people who try to block the truth in many cases.

    Zionists get laws passed that imprison truth-tellers re the Holohoax. Zs get laws passed that target white racists, but not black, Mexican, and Jewish racists. Such people conduct a war on Western Civilization by targetting the builders of that civilization – Europeans! You cannot grasp this simple axiom? Too bad. It is crystal clear to thoughtful people. It’s the cultural war of Zioid/Commies moving thru the institutions, taking them over. The Frankfurt School monsters – Horkheimer, Adorno, Marcuse et al. Today, they’ve largely succeeded. Answer me: Why such laws? Because they are afraid of public debate. They want their power intact. They don’t want thinkers gumming up the works. Can’t you see the obvious?

    You say CThists want to get attention? Even negative attention? How ludicrous! What are they then, masochists? I don’t think so. Valdas’ recent lecture shows he’s a giant intellect who loves Truth per se, and has sourced all his main points, while you remain a doubting pygmy who hates him for revealing the evil truth behind Zionism and Communism, the two most destructive forces the world has EVER known, in terms of mass murder totals (over 100 million). I will shout that fact from the rooftops, as Valdas did with great courage. Oh yes, you’ve never heard the truth before. We’ll take that into consideration. Your Commie profs.

    Incredulous, you’re so pathetically brainwashed you legitimize the criminal and evil ADL to “prove” your point re Kristallnacht! Are you for real? What truth can possibly come from that witch-hunting org? None. Fyi, less than 100 persons died in it, tho the NYTimes dishonestly reported deaths in the thousands, to over-dramatize and hide the Zionist hand of hate. You conveniently forget that the powerful Jewish organizations headquartered in New York, Paris, and London had declared war against Hitler shortly after he came to power in 1933, by boycotts of German goods, embargoes worldwide, some ship sinkings of Japanese as well as German vessels. Still Hitler didn’t respond in like, tho the Japanese did at Pearl harbor, giving the evil FDR exactly what he wanted – war with the Axis! To satisfy the ravenous Jews in his cabinet and elsewhere. “Day of infamy?” No. FDR was overjoyed. BIG money could now be made. FDR knew beforehand, as Bush knew beforehand re 9-11.

    Ingrid Weckert’s great book, which Mr. Etter has read and researched to make sure her sources were true, ‘Flashpoint,’ exposes the superficiality, sloppiness and plain dishonesty of those prominent, tho lying “court historians” you revere. When Hitler first heard of the outbreak of violence, he immediately ordered an end to the lawlessness. Any “brownshirts” taking part were punished. Kristallnacht meant that German prestige was dealt a crippling blow because Hitler was showcasing his new, built up Reich as a place where other Europeans were encouraged to visit on vacation or other, for foreigners to come to see for themselves that he had nothing to hide. This is OPPOSITE to the Soviet Union which thrust up impregnable borders to keep the miserable proles in. No one was to visit except on state guided tour. Kinda like Israel today, where tourists don’t see the injustices to the Palestinians, or the settlements, etc. The Fuhrer said “Here’s Germany. Please visit!” Has it ever occurred to you that Jews in the Reich were still able to go to synagogue and keep their millions if they had it? Thru to 1941? When they were rounded up for LABOR camps. I admit all such corralling of peoples for forced labor is wrong, but the Soviets did it on 15 times the scale. Little is mentioned of that. Americans did too, to not only Japanese-Americans, but also to German- and Italian-Americans! Never heard of that, have you? You have MUCH to learn.

    It is often forgotten that Jewish Zionists and German National Socialists shared similar views about the “Jewish Question,” and accordingly worked together from 1933 to 1939 to encourage German Jews to emigrate to Palestine, culminating in the Transfer Agreement of 1939. Did you know that? Did you know that a young Jewish malcontent named Herschel Grynszpan shot a nazi embassy official in Paris just before Kristallnacht? Duh…

    Why do you take the side of the Zionist oppressors? They have passed the laws that have imprisoned such honest, brilliant and courageous truth-tellers as E Zundel, R Faurisson, D Irving (who says he is bored with the Holohoax, has seldom discussed it and said there were MANY holocausts in WW2), H Mahler, S Stolz, U Walendy, G Rudolf, et al. How did they become imprisoned? C’mon, now, you can do it…

    Re Antifa, they are not opposed to totalitarianism, they ARE totalitarian! I once had a garden variety punk back in the late ’90s tell me Anti-Racist Action were “a bunch of violent sh-theads!” I believe her. To them Truth doesn’t matter a bean. Only feelings, symbols and violence. They cannot see their own boiling hate, which makes them psychotic or sociopathic. Whichever. Psychology doesn’t interest me, but you get the drift. Let’s just call them devils.

  7. Evan P. Thomas says:

    How are they attacking your freedom, Raul? They’re abiding by the same constitutional amendment as you! You’re practicing their freedom in the EXACT same way you are.

    We’re in agreement that it’s utterly stupid for them to advocate for PF’s eradication, but this is not going to happen under these circumstances, so you don’t even need to worry about them squashing your free speech because they don’t have the jurisdiction to do so, and the people who have jurisdiction to do so aren’t going to do so.

    None of those things you listed are “anti-freedom.” They are very pro-freedom, they are exercising their own rights to free speech: this is exactly what the “anti-hate” antifa’s are. They very obviously haven’t suppressed you, because you’re still talking. The only way to supress you is legally, which hasn’t happened. Do I need to explain to you about the causality of proving threat/assault too?

    It’s incredible, Raul. Both sides of this issue are exercising free speech, and both sides are arguing that the other side is violating free speech– for no other reason than you don’t like that they’re saying. Which is ridiculous. I’m literally telling both you and protesters the exact same basic fundamental concepts of how our legal system works and what our constitution recognizes, and none of you are choosing to hearing me. You’re all content with irrational fighting.

    I’ve never seen more frivolous double standards in my life.

  8. Raul says:

    The Anti-Defamation League is Zionist. It is part of a movement to persuade us to support Jewish ethnic cleansing in Palestine. It is a very powerful movement. They attack leftist critics of Israeli crimes as ‘anti-semitic’ too. Anti-fascists are their pawns. Antifa are not just enemies of freedom in some abstract sense, but actively try to suppress all their critics, left, right and neither. They uncritically reproduce statements from Zionist, that is, racist, organizations. In the last year anti-fascists in Portland have published threats online, sent a threatening letter, wrote graffiti calling a left-wing comrade a ‘Nazi’, and posted stickers threatening extreme violence against people of that persuasion. Now they are planning worse – at your university! Sit on the fence, Evan – if you can –

  9. Java says:

    Will Sudsy be going?

  10. Evan P. Thomas says:


    I could invite Ted Kaczynski to speak at my place, but that doesn’t make ME harmful unless I help him package up some bombs. The things you are saying are logically unreasonable.

    Why don’t you show me what my “ignorant bullshit” is instead of convincing yourself you’re fighting the good fight and ignoring everything else?

    You know what, Jeff? You’ve been talking about Nazism a good amount. So I’ve decided you’re a Nazi. I think I’m going to arrange a group of people to take a real stand against you. Have fun denying your true colors, I know the truth.

  11. Jeff says:

    So, if they’re so harmless why are they inviting The NSM to show up and make a presence at they’re next meeting this week? While you all continue to bicker and spout you’re ignorant bullshit people in this community are going to take a real stand against real Nazis! Have fun with you’re Internet trolling commentator. It’s seems to be all you guys are willing to do.

    For more info go to
    and scroll down to Can Myths Harm Indigenous Peoples?

  12. dc says:

    @ Betz and Evan:
    It’s not valid criticism, in my opinion, when you are using preconceived notion and AHTF rhetoric on which to base your attempts toward “criticizing” our (open) political discussion group.

    If and when any of you can get closer to the reality of what has actually taken place at the Forum, then our conversations can go to the next octave.

    @ Incredulous:
    You are beyond help, if you are “afraid” of a link to ihr.
    Your basis is a Wiki-‘reality’ and the ADL? End of discussion? You have some serious homework to do.

  13. Incredulous says:

    This is to DC in particular, and other readers in general:

    DC presents from the Holocaust-denying Institute for Historical Review.

    I present which is a very detailed, sourced refutation of DC’s link.

    DC – PLEASE – take a step back, take a deep breath, think things through. Maybe one day you will realize that YOU are the one that is being duped, you are the one that has fallen under the spell of holocaust-deniers and anti-semites, and that you should assess why you allowed yourself to be so open to it all.

  14. Evan P. Thomas says:

  15. Incredulous says:

    WOW DC – you posted a link to the Institute for Historical Review. That pretty much sums it up for me. Here’s what the Anti-Defamation League writes about the IHR:

    The California-based IHR, which split with Willis Carto in 1993, remains the world’s single most important outlet for Holocaust-denial propaganda. While the IHR seeks to gain credibility by working under the guise of scholarship and impartiality, many of its staffers and Editorial Advisory Committee members often participate in pro-Nazi and anti-Jewish activities. Current director Mark Weber was an activist in the National Alliance during the 1970s, and editorial advisor Robert Faurisson was convicted three times of violating French hate-crime laws because of his anti-Semitic activities. Other active participants in IHR include David Irving, the leading Holocaust denier in England, and Ernst Z

  16. dc says:

    I’ve responded, incredulous.

    My posts hang in “moderation”, until a magic finger releases them, ever since the David Irving summer.

    Off to school now, won’t be back until this Eve.

    I’m more than open to answering ANY questions that any of you pose. Thank you for this/these opportunities.

  17. Incredulous says:

    DC are you there? DC Are you there? You never responded to my questions in my comment above? Give it a try, I’d love to hear your intellectualism

  18. dc says:

    For anyone willing to step outside of prescribed ‘norms’.

  19. dc says:

    Damn it. Chickenfeet issue again. Fixing it now:


    Orval has, 3 times discussed parts of a book which records a murder that any reasonable person will incorporate as a precursor to Kristalnacht, YES. But as was OE’s typical approach, he presented the information in a balanced and hyper-thoughtful way, AND HE DID NOT PRESUME ANY CONCLUSION.

    [did Orval essentially blame the Jews for

  20. dc says:


    Orval has, 3 times discussed parts of a book which records a murder that any reasonable person will incorporate as a precursor to Kristalnacht, YES. But as was OE’s typical approach, he presented the information in a balanced and hyper-thoughtful way, AND HE DID NOT PRESUME ANY CONCLUSION.

    >>did Orval essentially blame the Jews for

  21. Betz says:

    You are guilty of technique number 8.

    The first amendment is meant to protect speech – not protect you from critics for your stupid ideas. These two concepts are mutually exclusive.

  22. They in ma teef! says:

    Don’t be knockin conspiracy theories. While it is patently absurd to assume that some sort of secret cabal operates global politics (power begets usurpers), it’s all but proven that the micro, en masse, has an effect on the macro.

    Of course the ability to draw such myriad connections requires a sort of god complex along with way too much free time (sounds familiar), but to outright dismiss such discussions as lunacy is a bit preemptive.

    After seeing Anton-Wilson spin great entertainment from similar discussions I’m all for letting these people chase their windmills.

  23. Raul says:

    I said “anti-fascists are against pacifica because they are against freedom”. Evan says “you just indirectly (maybe subconsciously) equated Fascism to freedom”. No I didn’t. ‘Anti-fascism’ doesn’t mean merely ‘opposition to fascism’ – it is an old political tradition which hypes up the danger of fascism to get people to fight for other forms of oppression, especially Stalinism and democracy. As far as conspiracy theories are concerned, I can only repeat that some of them are believed by some people in the forum. Just like any other group of people. It is a free speech group, and if you support freedom, you should actively support it, not just say it is legal and call for it to be ignored til it goes away.

  24. Incredulous says:

    DC, you write that “the Pacifica Forum has NEVER had a talk on the Jewish Holocaust”, am I getting that right? You should join Mark Weber as a historical revisionist. Didn’t Orval Etter present programs on Crystallnacht (acknowledged by most historians as a significant precurser to the perpetrations of the Holocaust) and in those presentations, did Orval essentially blame the Jews for “provoking” the Nazis into Crystallnacht? Has Pacifica Forum ever hosted (i.e. embraced) speakers and presentations that include Holocaust denial. Did Pacifica Forum ever host a program called “The Lies of Eli Wiesel”? Let me guess – none of this is actually about the Jewish Holocaust, right DC?

  25. Ronna Bouche' says:

    To Evan-

    HA HA and HO HO HO. Now it’s more like a holiday at UofO. dancin’ dancin’… holiday spring break …

    Great gift-post, Evan! oh, and
    here’s the Valdas’ lecture THEY (AHTF) don’t want you to read:

  26. Evan P. Thomas says:

    The quotes you’re giving carry absolutely no weight. Of course a conspiracy theorist is going to believe in conspiracy theories. These quotes are as obvious as a person believing in Santa saying “Santa is real.” Well, DUH, by the very nature of your belief system you should be thinking that (at least I hope so), but it provides absolutely no contextual reference or point of credibility to the rest of the world.

    Conspiracy theories are about getting attention. Which is exactly what this whole ordeal has accomplished for PF.

  27. dc says:

    The Pacifica Forum has NEVER had a talk on the Jewish Holocaust, contrary to what the ‘activists’ (and Pira Kelly) would like for you to think. It’s just hasn’t happened.

    While it’s true that The Billy (Rojas) gave a lecture a while back on “Comparative Holocausts”, or some such, I’m told he largely skirted any discussion of the WWII-era issue.

    The local z-lobby has been indignantly spouting their “holocaust denier” pejorative to describe Pacifica, for a nauseatingly long time now; perhaps this is a topic whose time has come.

    Evan: I don’t know Alex Constantine, will have to look him up.

    Here’s another: “The biggest government conspiracy is the claim that there are no government conspiracies.”
    paraphrased, Mike Rivero,

  28. Evan P. Thomas says:

    PS: You just indirectly (maybe subconsciously) equated Fascism to freedom. Which I also find amusing.

  29. Evan P. Thomas says:

    First Gore Vidal and now Alex Constantine? You’re on a roll.

    The “Evan you know and love” defends your right to be on campus legally, and nothing in this article refutes that. Never have I ever claimed to agree with anything that has been said in the forum, so I don’t expect you to really enjoy what I have to say about teh topics you choose. Freedom of speech should absolutely be celebrated on college campuses; that doesn’t mean the things that are freely spoken aren’t entirely moronic.

    Just like you get to define you own truths, so do I. “Some conspiracy theories are true” means nothing to me, and most of the adult world.

    Also, you’re overlooking one major difference. The reason you wont be labeled as a “racist’ or ‘neo-nazi’ group by me is because these (though they are disgusting to me) are individual inherent ideals that do not require assembly. So there is no causal relationship between a group having a racist and the group being racist. However, conspiracy theory is a chosen concept that is popularized BECAUSE of assembly. So the fact that you even house a venue for conspiracy theory, whether or not you are yourself, marks your group as conspiracy theorists advocates.

    I’m not interested in the validity of whatever you choose to talk about. I’m interested in the very fact that you talk about it: that marks conspiracy. And the very fact that you have just said “some conspiracy theories are true” and “Holocaust theory” in your very response just affirms to me that my accusatory opinion about the nature of your group it correct. Yes, we know you like to advertise that you’re a free speech group, blahblahblah. Your free speech isn’t in question; I’m not focusing on the fact that you’re talking (and, neither are you), I’m focusing on what you’re talking about. And I find it pathetic.

    Either way, it’s not going to get you removed from campus under any circumstance. A lot of people talk about things that the general intelligent populace finds pathetic and don’t get kicked out of anywhere. Like I said, I find it amusing (it should be noted that I find it equally amusing that people are even investing the time to legally protest it).

  30. Raul says:

    This is not the Evan we know and love. 1 some conspiracy theories are true, some are not. 2 the pf is not a conspiracy theory group. There have been raging arguments inside the forum about whether a particular conspiracy theory is right (September 11th). The Forum itself does not say this conspiracy theory is true, or not. Nor the Holocaust theory. Nor saint Martin wazacommiedupe (wuzi? idunno). It’s a FREE SPEECH group.

    You say “ignore the Forum and it will go away”. This means disagreeing with the protestors on tactics. Your first-rate defense of the first amendment contradicts this. Anti-fascists are against pacifica because they are against freedom. You should support Pacifica coz you ain’t.

  31. Java says:

    Martin Luther King, Jr may well have been the “most important leader of the civil rights movement,” because of his unrelenting efforts to establish greater social justice and Constitutional equality.

    While Malcolm X and other Black radicals of the time spoke of “any means necessary” and “Burn, baby, burn,” King stuck to his goals of peaceful transition. This made him a leader. I doubt it made him a saint.

    The FBI tracked him. No surprise. The records include information that for some is unquestionable moral lapse. (Sorry, researching one’s heroes is often full of unpleasant surprise.)

    There is also the point of some un-Platonic logic here. If one states that there are documented records showing someone to have had interaction with “known Communists,” that person has NOT just said “so and so is a Communist.” Arguments regarding one statement are not valid if applied to the other.

  32. ER says:

    Can Idiots Harm Indigenous Pacificas?

    Where’s my check, D C ??
    And when can we expect the next episode of the “Jimmy and Dawn show.”
    I need to set my TiVo. 🙂

  33. dc says:

    Rojas is many-phobia-ed, but he is not “a scientist”.

    Our Political Discussion group would have grown exponentially, by now, if not for the tireless work of the Latexed-Crusader, Michael Williams. He has made it his primary focus to hunt down new attendees and breathe into them the breath and threat of the “Network” that he works for.. Many Examples of this.

    They’ve also sent wild-eyed men to picket us, and dopers, even ‘zionist street people’– all to contribute to the desired negative public perception, they designed for us. Currently, amidst the student protesters, I see only 2 that are on the ‘payroll’.

    ~Not counting Charles Martinez, of course.

  34. JMB says:

    Jimmy Marr looks like he should be playing the villain in a cheesy action-comedy starring Hulk Hogan.

  35. dc says:


    “Fascism is inherently conspiratorial, and the study of it is often maligned as ‘conspiracy theory.’ ”

    The reptile thing is code, I think. And they don’t live underground (silly), they live “behind the scenes”!

  36. Monica says:

    Nice write-up, Evan. You bring up a lot of good points… I think it’s funny how people keep saying “PF has been on campus for years! Why hasn’t anyone done anything about this until now???” when really, no one gave a shit about them until this year, for some reason. I can understand why it would upset some people to know these topics are being discussed on campus…. but if we hadn’t put a spotlight on the Forum, they’d still be doing what they’ve been doing: spouting crazy conspiracy theories to the same 10-15 people. And how many people are going to the meetings now (protestor or otherwise)? Awesome. I hope this issue dies soon, but I have a feeling we’ll be hearing about it for the rest of the year….

  37. ER says:

    The Pacifica Forum is full of Mad Scientists

  38. CJ says:

    Besides flagrant ad hominem attacks on the most important leader of the civil rights movement (“moral leper”) and vague denunciations of the movement itself (Marr said it was “not necessarily” a good thing)? No.

    DC, did you know a race of alien reptiles living underground actually controls the world? No, really. You thought it was the Jews, but the reptile men tricked you. This information is well-sourced.

  39. dc says:

    George did that once. Yep, I remember. Once.

    And we had many consecutive years of honoring King/touting his legacy, on or around his birthday, before we did the other.

    I KNOW you heard Orval explain, CJ (@ that “MLK Communist?” Forum); that he’d been “quite aware for many years there were rumors of King’s having communist ties”.. and so he thought he’d invite certain PF-ers to air some of that– by allowing the contrary view to be heard– for the first time, at that Jan. 08 Forum.

    But the FIRST 45 minutes were Orval’s first hand rememberings/ essentially his usual version of honoring King.

    What Valdas compiled for Jimmy Marr to deliver was not the whole substance of that Forum, even though that’s all you wrote about in your retelling. And Valdas’ research was well enough sourced/ he used various books based on the release of the Soviet Archives.

    Wasn’t one of our best presentations ever— but IT WAS NOT “RACIST”, as you then let Michael Williams parrot, via this blog, a couple short weeks later.

    There were even certain Jewish people in the audience, one in particular that I spoke to afterwards, who’d worked long and hard during the Civil Rights movement and she did not take offense, or choose to call the presentation “racist”.

    It aired on CTV and there were no complaints.

    It’s only in Michael Williams rewrite [read “skewing”] of what went on there, we were now broad-brushed as “Anti-African-American.”

    OC Archive: (From the Super-Hero)
    “The forum has provided an approving and affirming environment for the expression of bigotry and hatred aimed first at Jews and now at African-Americans.”

    You were there, CJ, do you remember any “hate” aimed at “African-Americans”?

  40. Java says:

    Another good one from Evan. Still, I wouldn’t be so quick to write off all those “conspiracy theories.” Truth IS sometimes greater than fiction.

    To ER, great artwork by Dees on the Rense site!

  41. JMB says:

    “nly one PF-er listens to Alex Jones, that I know of.”

    That’s too bad, if the PF brought in Alex Jones to talk about how George W. Bush sacrificed a human to the pagan god Moloch at Bohemian Grove, I’d attend the meeting for sure.

  42. dc says:

    1.) “The People and The Land”
    2.) (Can’t remember the next one’s title) OE always described it as having overlayed clips of interviews with Israeli Leaders and then, debunking their claims by showing footage of the actual facts on the ground.
    3.) Later: “Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land”
    4.) Hijacking Catastrophe
    5.) Ennes’ Attack on the USS Liberty

    There were others, but the first two were what started the letter-writing campaign, where claims were circulated that showing these films in a public setting “threatened the Jews of Eugene” and were “regarded a smear and hate campaign”.

    Next act: Michael Williams appears out of nowhere to “expose” the (alleged) “antisemitism of the Pacifica Forum” …and the lie-fest began. [and kept going… and going… and going.]

  43. CJ says:

    No, of course the PF isn’t full of conspiracy theorists. You just sometimes talk about how MLK Jr. was part of a KGB plot to destabilize America (bankrolled by Jewish financiers, of course). Oh, and George Beres used to yammer about the “shadow government” all the time. Definitely not conspiracy theorists.

  44. ER says:


  45. Evan P. Thomas says:

    PS: Loose Change is a technically “documentary” too.

  46. Evan P. Thomas says:


    Quoting Gore Vidal isn’t helping you. Quit while you’re ahead.

  47. dc says:

    Only one PF-er listens to Alex Jones, that I know of.

    Michael Williams did an R-G Op-Ed, once that said:
    “What’s next, David Duke?”

    He was booked, so we settled for Mark Weber.

  48. JMB says:

    I’ve always thought it’s only a matter of time until the Pacifica Forum brings in Alex Jones to speak.

  49. Sean says:

    Nice post, Evan!

  50. dc says:

    Not meaning to tarnish your brilliance Evan, but the core hate-forcers (Applebaum, Weinerman, Norparstak, Bessemer, …) tried the “conspiracy theorist” pejorative against us, 5 or more years ago.

    It just doesn’t have the same grab as “rascist-Nazi-Anti-Semitic-Holocaust-denying-white-supremacist-baby-hangers”. Besides, those were documentaries on Palestine, that we showed.

    But by all means, keep brainstorming, eventually you’ll start figuring out why PF was targeted by the local z-lobby.

    They’re quite desperate now, and fairly outta time.

    Oh, and I hear they’re offering decent perks for those that’ll perform a “testimonial”. (We didn’t start videotaping EVERY FORUM until 07, so there’s EXTRA IN IT, if you can say you attended prior to then.)

    “Conspiracy stuff –is now shorthand for Unspeakable Truth.”
    Gore Vidal

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