Various senators were present, various questions were asked; nothing exciting to report.
See for yourself:
This entry was posted on Tuesday, February 27th, 2007 at 20:01 by Andy and is filed under ASUO.
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How did this turn into a conversation about the Commentator? It’s not. I understand what your role is… the issue is why people do or don’t participate in politics. indifference is the death of progress I tell you. By not participating you are guranteeing that nothing ever changes.
You fundamentally misunderstand the role of a gadfly. Look, a lot of people will have to change their minds for anything to be different.
The role of the Commentator on campus is to inform people about the BS and to attempt to get them to pay attention to it. Also, to call a spade a spade. We also, classically, have done more than any other campus group to try and stop wanton spending: not having stipends, going to PFC meetings, running real and joke ASUO candidates, filing suit, filing grievances and complaints…And, most of all, by printing, year after year, large and in-depth stories about ASUO perfidiousness, University Administration shenanigans and DPS aggression. Between the ODE and the OC there is a wealth of information available to students about this stuff, they don’t care, and they don’t have to, but it’s not like the only thing this magazine has ever done is complain about the ASUO kids on the internet*. And I find the insinuation that there’s no value in an opinion journal for its own sake to be a tad insulting, not to me personally, but to an organization with a 24 year history.
Lasty, I am emphatically not indifferent about the results of the political process (real or student), I am cynical about the possibility to change them through voting. There’s a world of bloody difference.
*As an official OC geezer who graduated from college in 2004 and is just a few days shy of 25, my primary role is to complain about things on the internet. Namely the ASUO and that the kids today should get off of my lawn and publish more issues.
Timothy, this is all true. I think that my frustration tends to come from the fact that people don’t care but then turn around and complain about the end result. It takes courage and strength to care about issues and try to work to change them with many people working towards simply maintaining the status quo. The oposite of this is indifference. If you are going to be indifferent to something then be indifferent don’t then complain that someone is wasting a lot of money on stupid bullshit just be quiet, sit still, and look pretty. If you fight to change the process then even if you fail at the end you can say well I sure did try and hope that the good fight continues…
My opinions on voting are well known by this point. Always flawed, often useless, generally not between any alternatives. I mean, really, from my perspective is there a difference between the two electable parties?
One wants to control what I watch in my own home, with whom I can consort sexually, what I may say about elections and when, whether or not I may light certain colorful strips of cloth on fire, and what I can say about people in public, and what I may consume for my own enjoyment.
The other wants to control what I watch in my own home, what I can say about elections and when, what I may consume for my own enjoyment, where I can send any future offspring to school, from where I buy my health care, how I may save my my retirement, who I can hire and how, the way in which I can insult people, what I can say about religion, and on and on.
There’s so much overlap that I’m having trouble coming up with ways to distinguish. I mean, I guess one is more excited about foreign military misadventures and one wants to raise my taxes even more…but seriously, not a functional difference. A government empowered to help is one empowered to harm, and the latter is much more prevalent throughout history.
At the ASUO level it’s less important, but basically the same. Everybody wants to waste a lot of money on stupid bullshit, one of these people will win. The role of a gadfly is to agitate and point out the bullshit, and to endorse the better candidates, but you can’t force people to care. And they won’t, but you can at least put it in front of them.
And that’s really the purpose of fora like this one, to put stuff out there for people to see. The problem that a lot of folks have is they think that people would change if only they knew, but that isn’t true. You can’t make them pay attention to the information, and you can’t make them care about it, so you put it out there and you go down the pub.
Nope I can’t fathom that because I would hope that even a concientious objector would then try talk to his congresspeople and get the military policies changed or what have you… so, while I respect the notion if you don’t try to do anything to change it then what have you accomplished? nothing.
A ponzi scheme will always be a scheme – something wrong that I do not want to participate in. Many people are concientious objectors, meaning they think no matter what the military does, they want no part of it – including joining the military in hope of changing its practices. You see, I’m a concientious objector to the ASUO, can you respect or even fathom that?
Well said, that would have been along the lines of my response. I should clarify because I have just as big a problem with people who vote but then aren’t informed or involved as I do with people who simply don’t vote because they don’t care. especially when there are so many reasons to care. I mean you student government autonomously allocates probably more money than any other student government in the country…do you want to leave it in the hands of some bogus power tripping juveniles even if you disagree with the system…? I don’t think so. you want to try to get people in there to alter the system… right… RIGHT!
There is a good reason not to vote – these assholes don’t represent me in the slightest. Almost every student here at UO, save those ‘without privledge,’ isn’t represented and is just having their money taken from them. If these groups were so important to campus, then wouldn’t students give their money freely to them?? The whole shebang is just a ponzi scheme to transfer money from the average student to the politically connected. That’s it.
If people don’t vote, it should be because noone was worthy of the support that a vote shows. But you can’t NOT vote because you think people should scrap the whole system. If you’re going to do that, you need to get a lot of media attention so others know WHY you’re doing it. Start a little Conspiracy Theory letter and deliver it to all the Senators’ mailboxes, bring it up at meetings, write letters to the editor of the ‘Ol Dirty. I support people who don’t vote, but only if they don’t vote for a reason and only when they show their opposition through some kind of action. Otherwise you just become a statistic in the book of apathy.
No you can subvert the system and convince people that it should be scrapped. How low must the turn out be so that no one gives credibility or credence to the asuo? Hopefully we’ll get there soon.
Fair enough crimes no, but by contributing to the political structure and voicing your opinions through active participation (including voting) you make sure that at least your voice was heard and actually have the potential to effect change but if you don’t do anything and just let the system happen to you then you REALLY have no chance to effect change and see the things that you would like to be done come to fruition.
Hey, those who DON’T vote aren’t liable for the crimes of the government. I hope voter turn out is .01%, because that’s probably the real amount of students’ views which are represented. Or how about we don’t have an election and just not have a government next year? I mean, I’d save everyone each over $600 if no one voted right? I should start that campaign…
.
So that means that no one cares and we can give stipends to everyone and just jack the fee up. When people complain we can say hey you didn’t voice your opinion. I really hate voter apathy… I mean a 21% turnout last year, less than 150 votes seperating the top candidates. I mean, seriously? Come on people. Ted, I think I want to write a piece about voter apathy for your next issue…!
I think arguing with strangers on the internet counts as participating. This is something I tell myself to keep from going insane with despair.
How did this turn into a conversation about the Commentator? It’s not. I understand what your role is… the issue is why people do or don’t participate in politics. indifference is the death of progress I tell you. By not participating you are guranteeing that nothing ever changes.
You fundamentally misunderstand the role of a gadfly. Look, a lot of people will have to change their minds for anything to be different.
The role of the Commentator on campus is to inform people about the BS and to attempt to get them to pay attention to it. Also, to call a spade a spade. We also, classically, have done more than any other campus group to try and stop wanton spending: not having stipends, going to PFC meetings, running real and joke ASUO candidates, filing suit, filing grievances and complaints…And, most of all, by printing, year after year, large and in-depth stories about ASUO perfidiousness, University Administration shenanigans and DPS aggression. Between the ODE and the OC there is a wealth of information available to students about this stuff, they don’t care, and they don’t have to, but it’s not like the only thing this magazine has ever done is complain about the ASUO kids on the internet*. And I find the insinuation that there’s no value in an opinion journal for its own sake to be a tad insulting, not to me personally, but to an organization with a 24 year history.
Lasty, I am emphatically not indifferent about the results of the political process (real or student), I am cynical about the possibility to change them through voting. There’s a world of bloody difference.
*As an official OC geezer who graduated from college in 2004 and is just a few days shy of 25, my primary role is to complain about things on the internet. Namely the ASUO and that the kids today should get off of my lawn and publish more issues.
Timothy, this is all true. I think that my frustration tends to come from the fact that people don’t care but then turn around and complain about the end result. It takes courage and strength to care about issues and try to work to change them with many people working towards simply maintaining the status quo. The oposite of this is indifference. If you are going to be indifferent to something then be indifferent don’t then complain that someone is wasting a lot of money on stupid bullshit just be quiet, sit still, and look pretty. If you fight to change the process then even if you fail at the end you can say well I sure did try and hope that the good fight continues…
My opinions on voting are well known by this point. Always flawed, often useless, generally not between any alternatives. I mean, really, from my perspective is there a difference between the two electable parties?
One wants to control what I watch in my own home, with whom I can consort sexually, what I may say about elections and when, whether or not I may light certain colorful strips of cloth on fire, and what I can say about people in public, and what I may consume for my own enjoyment.
The other wants to control what I watch in my own home, what I can say about elections and when, what I may consume for my own enjoyment, where I can send any future offspring to school, from where I buy my health care, how I may save my my retirement, who I can hire and how, the way in which I can insult people, what I can say about religion, and on and on.
There’s so much overlap that I’m having trouble coming up with ways to distinguish. I mean, I guess one is more excited about foreign military misadventures and one wants to raise my taxes even more…but seriously, not a functional difference. A government empowered to help is one empowered to harm, and the latter is much more prevalent throughout history.
At the ASUO level it’s less important, but basically the same. Everybody wants to waste a lot of money on stupid bullshit, one of these people will win. The role of a gadfly is to agitate and point out the bullshit, and to endorse the better candidates, but you can’t force people to care. And they won’t, but you can at least put it in front of them.
And that’s really the purpose of fora like this one, to put stuff out there for people to see. The problem that a lot of folks have is they think that people would change if only they knew, but that isn’t true. You can’t make them pay attention to the information, and you can’t make them care about it, so you put it out there and you go down the pub.
Nope I can’t fathom that because I would hope that even a concientious objector would then try talk to his congresspeople and get the military policies changed or what have you… so, while I respect the notion if you don’t try to do anything to change it then what have you accomplished? nothing.
Didn’t you run for prez last year Andy?
Can’t get any more involved than that 😉
A ponzi scheme will always be a scheme – something wrong that I do not want to participate in. Many people are concientious objectors, meaning they think no matter what the military does, they want no part of it – including joining the military in hope of changing its practices. You see, I’m a concientious objector to the ASUO, can you respect or even fathom that?
that response was for Nick 🙂
Well said, that would have been along the lines of my response. I should clarify because I have just as big a problem with people who vote but then aren’t informed or involved as I do with people who simply don’t vote because they don’t care. especially when there are so many reasons to care. I mean you student government autonomously allocates probably more money than any other student government in the country…do you want to leave it in the hands of some bogus power tripping juveniles even if you disagree with the system…? I don’t think so. you want to try to get people in there to alter the system… right… RIGHT!
“Apathy is a human right.”
There is a good reason not to vote – these assholes don’t represent me in the slightest. Almost every student here at UO, save those ‘without privledge,’ isn’t represented and is just having their money taken from them. If these groups were so important to campus, then wouldn’t students give their money freely to them?? The whole shebang is just a ponzi scheme to transfer money from the average student to the politically connected. That’s it.
If people don’t vote, it should be because noone was worthy of the support that a vote shows. But you can’t NOT vote because you think people should scrap the whole system. If you’re going to do that, you need to get a lot of media attention so others know WHY you’re doing it. Start a little Conspiracy Theory letter and deliver it to all the Senators’ mailboxes, bring it up at meetings, write letters to the editor of the ‘Ol Dirty. I support people who don’t vote, but only if they don’t vote for a reason and only when they show their opposition through some kind of action. Otherwise you just become a statistic in the book of apathy.
No you can subvert the system and convince people that it should be scrapped. How low must the turn out be so that no one gives credibility or credence to the asuo? Hopefully we’ll get there soon.
Fair enough crimes no, but by contributing to the political structure and voicing your opinions through active participation (including voting) you make sure that at least your voice was heard and actually have the potential to effect change but if you don’t do anything and just let the system happen to you then you REALLY have no chance to effect change and see the things that you would like to be done come to fruition.
Hey, those who DON’T vote aren’t liable for the crimes of the government. I hope voter turn out is .01%, because that’s probably the real amount of students’ views which are represented. Or how about we don’t have an election and just not have a government next year? I mean, I’d save everyone each over $600 if no one voted right? I should start that campaign…
.
Yup cuz we all know I am just a bundle full of hate, contempt and spite! (yea, NOT!)
Oh…you’re gonna see a lot of hate…not you, Jacque, but the public.
Rahr.
That sounds like a great headline! We’ll talk more soon!
We have a Hate Issue too fill a few months down the road… “I Hate the Electorate” sounds like a winning headline.
So that means that no one cares and we can give stipends to everyone and just jack the fee up. When people complain we can say hey you didn’t voice your opinion. I really hate voter apathy… I mean a 21% turnout last year, less than 150 votes seperating the top candidates. I mean, seriously? Come on people. Ted, I think I want to write a piece about voter apathy for your next issue…!
Apparently the video didn’t show up either…